Professional Courtesy
Frank Borelli
Editor-in-Chief
Officer.com
Recently I noticed that a lot of comments about one article centered around professional courtesy. The article was about an officer who stopped a car/driver for drunk driving only to find the driver was a fellow police officer. Through the course of events the drunk driving off-duty cop somehow ended up in the on-duty cop’s K9 cage. Of course, this is “news”. But all the comments about professional courtesy got me thinking (yeah, I do that on occasion).
I think that professional courtesy is something many of us on the job, or retired from it, just assume is a reality. When I was working the street there were certain groups of people I extended a level of leniency to because I felt either I or society as a whole owed them that as a sign of appreciation. Those groups, for me, included cops, firemen, doctors, nurses and military service-members. Those folks would only get a citation from me if either 1) what they did was way out of hand, or 2) they just couldn’t find it within themselves to show me common courtesy when I pulled them over.
Obviously what each of us considers “way out of hand” differs. It is an entirely subjective judgment we make based on our personal and professional values, training and experience. The article in question was about an off-duty officer who was driving while under the influence, so I’ll use experiences from my past to demonstrate my outlook / point.
Early in my career, regularly on Saturday night, “choir practice” was held in my jurisdiction. I attended my fair share but I’m a light weight drinker so I rarely consumed even one beer much less enough to get intoxicated. On more than one occasion I was working when choir practice was held and would check on my brother and sister officers as they were straggling out. I took more than one set of keys and had people sleeping in their cars (or sometimes the fire station if it was too cold out). During one of those instances I was told I should extend professional courtesy to my fellow officers and just let them drive home. After all, they weren’t TOO drunk. I viewed it the other way around: allowing them to risk their own life and the lives of others would have been unprofessional of me. Certainly, such a lack of concern for their well-being would be discourteous.
On another occasion I pulled over a fireman for speeding. After approaching and evaluating during initial contact I found out he was on his way home from a party and had been drinking. A PBT showed that his blood alcohol content level was border line for legal intoxication. He had been polite and respectful throughout our encounter and readily admitted he probably should have called his wife for a ride rather than trying to drive home. I called his wife, parked his car and kept the keys until the next day. We had both displayed courtesy and respected each others profession. “Professional courtesy” at its finest.
As a retired officer I would not expect to receive professional courtesy. I would hope for it and I would certainly be courteous if I got pulled over. I mean, that officer isn’t pulling me over randomly because he’s bored. Either I committed a violation or there’s an equipment defect on my vehicle or something else. He (or she) has some good reason for stopping me. The least I can do is be polite, cooperative and respectful and hope he does the same. If I get a citation, I earned it and he’s simply doing his job.
Do I think it would suck for one cop to give another cop (even a retired one) a ticket? Yep I do, but that takes me back to my earlier statement about “way out of hand”. Myabe way out of hand for him is five MPH over the speed limit. Whatever his way out of hand is governs the tone of the stop for him - and every driver he stops. If the driver he’s pulled over is a fellow officer then that fellow officer also has a personal concept of way out of hand. When the two concepts are different, conflict can occur.
What every off-duty and retired cop needs to remember is this: you wouldn’t have gotten stopped if you hadn’t given that officer a reason to stop you.
what every on-duty cop needs to remember is that we’re all brothers and sisters on the same team in a war against crime or we are veteran survivors of that war still worthy of respect. We will act different than the civilians because we are not scared or uncertain. 99% of the time we know exactly why we’re being stopped and how everything is going to proceed. During the other 1% we should endeavor not to create a news event that is embarassing to 100% of us. Ya’ think?
Stay safe.
I’ve extended a lot of professional courtesy over the years and, as long as it is for MINOR violations (like petit traffic offenses), I don’t mind one bit. I’ve been the beneficiary of professional courtesy a few times myself and I’m quite happy to give back. We’re all human and capable of mistakes but we’re all family, too. The brother/sister officers I dealt with were invariably understanding and polite with one very notable, loud-mouthed, off-duty and drunk exception from another jurisdiction, and he almost went to jail. Probably would have but for his slightly less drunk buddies - also off-duty cops - who suddenly had the good sense to intervene and prevent a career suicide.
I agree 100% with Frank. In those (hopefully rare) times we find ourselves on the “the other side” and being confronted by a brother or sister officer for our own mistakes, poor judgment, or outright foolishness, it is imperative we treat them as we want - and demand - to be treated when we’re on-duty. Maybe even more importantly, we should always conduct ourselves in a way that minimizes the need for that confrontation. We ARE under a public microscope and we all know how some members of the public love to jump all over the flaws and missteps of a few in order to paint all of us with a wide brush.
Personally, I’m sick of reading news stories about police misconduct but I don’t blame the media; they just report the news. I’m disappointed there seems to be no shortage of those stories. Maybe we each need to police our own conduct and hold ourselves up to the same standard the public does.
Amen, brother! Although, I have had to cite officers a couple of times in the past when I had already cited one or more of their non-officer friends for the same thing. I couldn’t very well cite everyone else and give the cop a pass right in front of the non-officers I had just cited. I felt bad about it, but most understand. One off-duty officer from a neighboring state decided to be a jerk and not sign the ticket and then he allowed his dad to threaten me. I had to get nasty with them. I cited a federal officer once for possession of FORTY-THREE undersize fish. He was also 38 over the daily bag limit. I felt good about that one because that was way out of line. P.S. I gave him one citation instead of 81 and filed civil restitution on the fish.
Integrity is key, whether you’re on-duty or off! I’ve deserved numerous tickets while off-duty, but I never got one. I always own up to my mistake and treat the officer as I would want to be treated if the roles were reversed. I don’t carry my badge in my wallet off duty, so if I have to show another officer my DL, he doesn’t see who I am. That way, I hold myself to as high a standard as I hold the rest of the public while on duty. It irks me to approach a boater, fisherman or hunter and ask to see fishing/hunting licenses or required safety equipment only to have him whip out his badge instead. It’s as if he is telling me, “I’m a cop. Leave me alone. I’m exempt”. I always try to visit with someone while I’m writing a ticket. Also, I always take the bio before I fill in the charge, that way I know who they are and where they work before I’ve filled in the charge leaving the option to issue a warning.
I guess I am just old school but unless you have no choice you just don’t write another COP a ticket PERIOD!!! Now if the guy is acting like an A– tell him or her so and then let him or her know you are cutting the badge a brake not them. As far as showing your ID right away well hell they tell in in the Academy to always ID yourself right away especially if you are carrying your weapon. Remember guy’s we don’t have much but writing another COP a ticket really???
I am Retired Military and the state of Illinois allows us to have very nice plates that say that. In the 50 years I have been driving, I have been stopped only a handful of times, speeding, lane change, etc. Each time, especially after I retired, I have always prayed for “professional courtesy.” Whether I got it or not, I was always respectful and TOTALLY EMBARRASSED. I have always apologized to the officer for putting us BOTH in such a situation.
On the other hand…
I am a strong believer that we are being neither professional nor courteous when we give a slide solely because the driver is an off duty cop or one of the many other catagories Frank mentioned he felt deserved special treatment. WHy stop there? Why not school teachers, plumbers, babysitters, lawyers, accountants, the guy who owns the McDOnalds franchise down the street, Wal Mart clerks,and on and on. The law is not ours to give away. Often other cops will use the analogy of a restauraunt owner giving a discount to a fellow shopkeeper or a lawyer giving free legsal advice to a fellow lawyer. The differnce is that the legal advice or the meal, is a commodoty owned by the person giving it away or discounting it. The law is not ours, to give away. The oath we SWEAR to, promises the public completely neutral, equal and objective application of the law on our employers - no matter what they happen to do for a living. If there are other extenuating circumstances surrounding a traffic beef, fine. There is where DISCRETION should be applied. But to give a free pass; solely and exclusively due to one’s profession and nothing else, when others who chose other career paths would get hammered, is not only cheesy, it’s corrupt by definition and the temptation to do this should be resisted if possible in today’s letigious world full of camcorders. Just sayin …
Jim Greeting, are you serious? You are either an A-hole traffic cop or a civilian. It’s a traffic infraction! It is NOT destroying evidence. And for you to suggest a nexus between a ticket and corruption is weak at best. Similar to the suggestion that taking a free cup of coffe is tantamount to accepting a bribe. It’s coffee people! The thought that I am going to let someone walk on a real crime because they gave me a Cup O’ Joe is just silly. And to suggest that one is prone to corruption because they took the coffee is foolish. If they are; their problems go far beyond that cup of coffee.
We get shot at, shot, stabbed, murdered, spit on, ridiculed in public by our elected bosses and the general public, and anything else that comes to the mind of John Q. Public when they have had a bad day. Their attitude? That’s what we get paid to do and too much at that. The only one that can possibly understand what that truly means is another cop, I hope.
So… we should crap on each other too? I appreciate my brother and sister cops. You just don’t write another cop. And those that do should be ashamed. And if you really think a traffic ticket is the same as running towards shots fired you have never run towards danger, rather from it I would guess.
It’s perspective boys and girls, in the grand scheme it’s traffic. Nothing more than a revenue generator for the idiot politicians to spend on yet another failed social program.
Cops should not write other cops, whether that cop is a new boot, salted veteran. or retired with Wyatt Earp. We all do or did the same job.
Well spoking Ronin!! You are 100% right when you say cops should not write other cops. I sure wish there were more cops like you out there. Keep up the good work and stay safe!
Dan are you kidding, you give another cop a ticket over a fuck### fish? What is the world coming to? All we have is each other out there. Unless its a serious misdemeanor which to me DUI is not or a felony we shouldnt be messing with each other. There are plenty of tweekers, fugitives and gang members out here. The real bad guys, the real police work!
Thank you Old School. It is not often I post, but sometimes I have to answer the call.
I am both bothered and encouraged by the posts I read here. Posts that say it is okay for police officers to commit criminal acts bother me deeply. DUII is a criminal act and Fish & Game Violations are sometimes criminal acts. A police officer does not accidentally drive DUII or keep 43 undersize fish and 38 over the limit. Where I am from, stealing $50 is a less “serious misdemeanor” than DUII. Should I allow a police officer to steal $50 amounts?
Posts from officers like Dan encourage me. He is willing to spank an officer for breaking the law when it is needed.
Professional courtesy has another side that most officers dont want to talk about. What about the professional courtesy I should get from officers that come into my jurisdiciton - The courtesy to not break the law and put me in the position of even having to contact them regarding a criminal act or intentional law violation. Speeding and DUII are normally intentional, lighting violations and such are often unintentional. I draw distinctions between those types of violations for everyone.
I consider it arrogant for me to say I am a police officer so I should be able to break the law.
Here goes plain and simple….if you stop any cop for a simple violation the easiest (and most appropriate) thing to do is say you’re all set and walk away. If you get into a pissing match or even start to discuss it you’ve opened pandora’s box. With in car video etc these days the less said the better. We work in a world where our actions are put under the microscope everyday and then Monday morning QB’d by the public. Let’s try and remember we are all on the same team. Cops don’t write cops! There are better ways to deal with the mopes that don’t to deserve to carry a badge. As far as Fire/EMS/MD’s etc it’s is a judgement call and we deserve respect….BUT you may someday in this small world we live in be looking up at one of these fine people as they drag your butt back from death’s door… as long as they are decent and honest I say you’re all set. Every time we go to a funeral we salute a friend/partner or stranger we give the salute unconditionally. Professional Courtesy is the one time we might get to say Thank You for putting your life on the line every day.
Seriously, you want to lump undersized fish, “Fish & Game Violations are sometimes criminal acts”, with a DUI stop? Really? The catching of fish or fishes with the potential of killing another human being! So now fish are as important in the grand scheme as a soccer mom?
I must be confused. I thought my job was to get guns and violent, evil predatory people off our streets to protect those that don’t appreciate my over paid, corrupt, never there when you need one efforts? A job I enjoy doing regardless of the thoughts of John Q.
Traffic is a great tool to accomplish the above efforts (catching bad guys). F generating revenue. F writing some John Q. for something that everyone does (speeding, rolling through stops signs, ect…). There are serious traffic offenses out there that one can enforce (DUI, multiple citations for the same offense). Anyone that has received my autograph earned it by being obnoxious, arrogant, or (fill in the blank) during our road side meet and greet. I realize every car stop participant may have the opportunity to save my stupid arse if I am getting lumped up on a car stop with a real loser. And that is the same reason I won’t write a nurse or a doctor. They may have to pull a bullet out of me because of the magic bullet fired by our friendly neighborHOOD that finds an area not covered by the vest purchased with the least amount of money by our “leaders”.
we can run through all these very entertaining hypotheticals, but this whole thing began with professional courtesy to our fellow brothers and sisters during a car stop. Cops should not write cops, working, retired, or indifferent. Not even on a Thursday, at midnight, during a leap year with cloudy skies. It is called discretion. This not an ethics course. It is not a slippery slope to us violating the civil rights of others or looking the other way when someone else does.
The situation was spelled out. You, an off duty or retired cop, and a “routine” car stop. Borelli said nothing of him smoking a blunt with an assault weapon in the passenger’s seat, a dead body holding 2.2 pounds of Columbia’s finest flake, and a bucket of undersized fish in the trunk.
Once again, Cops should not write other cops. Stay safe, have fun, and here’s hoping you collect more in retirement than you put into it!
Just gotta say this… My sincerest thanks, warmest wishes, and hope for all success and safety to the D5 Illinois State Police Trooper this morning on northbound I55, who saw fit to extend me far more professional courtesy than my dumb backside deserved. ISP, you guys rock!
I am currently attending the academy. The article and especially the comments were very instructive. Thanks!
I have to agree with ronin on this one. i am of the belief that not only does courtesy exist it should be passed down to young officers. let me just say this as a qualifing statement. We are not talking about murder, rape, robbery, or some other felonious act. We are talking about a traffic ticket. i could give a F* about a traffic ticket. that goes for the public as well. if i stop you, you deserved it. if i write you earned it. that means your demeanor left me no choice. now let me get back to the issue. we have cops in our state (especially state trooper) who feel that if you are ON DUTY and involved in a one car crash (meaning your working and you slide off the road or your running lights and sirens to assist another officer and you run off the road and the only damage is to your cruiser) they will see fit to write you a ticket. this is B.S. and when asked why the ticket was written they will tell you that you are no different then the public. OH REALLY. I say. Then how about this. Lets get rid of us and see who the public calls when johhny rotton decides to rape, rob shoot or do some other assorted crime against them. No different. you got to be kidding me. I think we all know we are different than the public. and i extend courtesy to them so i will extend it to cops. period.
A Jersey City Police Officer went to jail after killing a toddler on the Pulaski Skyway while driving drunk. How many times do you think he was stopped DUI and let go during “professional courtesy” before he committed that dui, ending in death (and ending his career and beginning his incarceration?) Traffic mistakes with a polite off-duty officer? warning. DUI? arrest.
Professional courtesy begins with me by not doing anything that is going to cause another officer to pull me over or otherwise contact me in an official capacity. If I choose to do something or act carelessly and I get pulled over, I’ve already tossed out professional courtesy. All I can do is be polite and respectful to whomever pulled me over and hope that they decide to give me a break. However, it is entirely up to them as to what, if any, enforcement action to take. If they tell me I’m getting a ticket, so be it. If I didn’t want to get a ticket I should not have been speeding, or going through the red light, or whatever. It is MY responsibility, not theirs. The officer is only doing their job.
I have never written another officer a ticket, but if I was to get one after being pulled over I wouldn’t have the slightest problem with it or with the officer who issued it. I know how to drive safely and within the law, and I should do so. If I don’t it is my responsibility and so are the consequences.
Mike, you are wrong. You extend professional courtesy on that stop by being, “polite and respectful…”. Something that doesn’t happen often. And generally speaking if I receive those two things on any stop I don’t issue any tickets; as noted in my previous posts.
While I appreciate your heroic stoicism it’s BS to get a ticket for a BS reason on a car stop. And you know that; which is why you extend courtesy to those in uniform. Or why extend it in the first place?
Cops should not write other cops. Stay safe, have fun, and here’s hoping you collect more in retirement than you put into it!
I certainly have the option not to write other officers for traffic infractions, but I think it is entirely wrong for me to expect the same from other officers. It is up to them to decide on enforcement action, if any, when they pull me over.
If you are a cop who doesn’t want to get a ticket, then don’t violate the motor vehicle laws. If you violate the MV laws then it is YOUR responsibility if you get a ticket, not the officer who is doing his job.
If you think it’s BS to get a ticket then don’t do anything that will get you a ticket.
I choose not to ticket other officers, but I don’t feel I have the right to demand the same from other officers. They have the same right as I to choose how to do their job.
Professional Courtesy is an interesting concept and one that I do believe in. However, what I have noticed in my combined 14 years of police and military life is that not all are professional or courteous. Many times this privelage is demanded and not earned. In the end, a little respect and courtesy for that one person tending to your particular problem, whether it is a nurse, police, fire, or other service member, would go a long way.
Professional Courtesy for ALL of us?
I realize I’m entering the discussion after the fact in comparison of the comments previously submitted.
I have been in this business for more than 27 years—on the East Coast(20+yrs) and the West Coast(currently 6yrs and still working)—-What I now write is no secret or misinterpretation of law: All 50 states grant the DISCRETION to law enforcement for any traffic violation–not felonies or misdemeanor crimes—I mean traffic violation.So please do not twist my words to “Get Out of Jail Free” that is NOT what I am saying.You do NOT have to write if you don’t want to. I have been the recipient of professional courtesy many times and I DO NOT DRINK!
I think about the number of car stops and/or traffic stops I have made in all types of days/nights and thruout the 27years, and continue. I use my discretion to NOT write any police officer-regardless of rank,cop,deputy,corrections, state trooper, or retired law enforcement of any jurisdiction. Also no Federal law enforcement either.As soon as I understand that is a COP, who I stopped for traffic, I end it meaning NO TICKET–NO CITATION—NO LECTURE.
I will continue in this method because we are a brotherhood and the most noble profession in the world.
I would prefer to HELP a cop or his family now at a traffic stop, while he is alive and providing for his family, then stand at his funeral saluting a fallen cop I would have given a traffic ticket or traffic violation citation. We all need each other now, not when we are dead. So lets work together and extend that professional courtesy to all our brothers and sisters officers no matter where they work. As soon as I see that retired or active LAW ENFORCEMENT ID card–your on your way with NO TICKET or NO CITATION.This is professional and reasonable.
I would NOT write you a ticket or citation for traffic.
Sorry no breaks for drunk drivers OFF THEY GO TO JAIL–safety first.
Keep going Frank Borelli–YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!
EVERY cop that has ever gone to jail for a major crime has later admitted that they started breaking small laws, then things got out of hand. They ALL have stated that if they had been caught and punished for the small stuff, they would have never felt invincible and gone on to the major stuff.
I’m afraid I’m reading lots of comments from cops who already feel like they should be treated as if they are invincible.
No way!! Would I ever write a brother officer, only if they were an @sshole!! This is the problem is Law enforement today, too much liberalism have gotten into the profession. If you commit a felony or misdeamenor then shame you. A citation is a civil infraction. We are under attack from the politicans, liberals and the only thing we have left is professional courtesy. As an operator of a motor vehicle be polite………as a cop……….cya. I am not invicible but I would hope my brother officer would give me a break……..since no one else will. Stay safe all.
I always am amazed at the discussions this subject generates. If it is so obvious that professional courtesy is a given, then next time you are talking with your non-cop friends and family, tell them loud and proud that you don’t ticket cops and you make sure cops don’t ticket you. See how well that sets with them.
Professional courtesy for 10 over? Yup, I’ve extended it to another professional just like I’ve extended discretion to the mother running late to get her kids. Discretion and an expected pass are different things. We all saw what “professional courtesy” got the cops in Florida who tried to cover up a minor accident. They lost their jobs and now face charges. They also made the rest of us look like snakes. Some of you even implied that we should make sure we have our talks “off camera”. The only reason to hide the talk is because we shouldn’t be having it.
I wondered about the comments from Joseph H. who said he was in the academy and found the “comments very instructive”. Is that good or bad? Bottom line is this, if you put me in the position of having to choose between extending you “courtesy” and risking my position, you won’t like the choice I make. Loyalty is critical in this job, but it doesn’t trump honor.
In the last several years, I have been stopped a few times for my speed, my bad. I did not receive a citation for any of those violations. My speed wasn’t drastic, but I was speeding. Maybe this is a play on words, but was it discretion or professional courtesy. 99% of the time, I have a gun on me. We all know how we react when we hear “GUN”, so my protocol when stopped is to provide my license and police ID, then advise of my weapon. When stopped, I am curtious, polite, respectful and acknowledge that I commited the violation, and although I am hoping that I won’t receive a ticket, I know I did the violation. If I get a ticket, I get a ticket. If I don’t, I thank the LEO and wish him/her a safe day.
Personally, I have never written another officer. Would I? Depending on the circumstances involved. Is s/he disrespectful, arrogant, loud mouth, and/or commiting a serious violation. I generally have discretion when it comes to LEO’s (Federal, State, County, Local), Corrections, Fire, EMS, Doctors, Nurses and Military.
CO Cop, my family and friends know full well my position on professional courtesy. I do, “tell them loud and proud…” I have nothing to hide.
Much like my brother in law that takes care of his friends and family with his car skills and another cousin that is a carpenter. Let’s not pretend that “professional courtesy” is a solely owned property by those that sport a badge.
Hell, if it wasn’t for my mother being a nurse her boss, the doctor, would have charged us an arm and a leg for health care, but he didn’t; he treated my brother and sisters for free. Go figure!
Again, it’s a traffic ticket! what is so hard to understand? Not a robbery.
Those of you with the write another cop mentality have to get over yourselves. It’s TRAFFIC! Not a crime.
i think most of the people who believe the tanted dirty cop that takes money, commits thefts, robs people or does other felonious actions started with getting courtesy on a traffic stop are idiots. That is not how it starts. i will only say one thing to those who believe that extending courtesy is a mark against your honor. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE. Once again this is a traffic infraction. You people who write cops for TRAFFIC INFRACTIONS let me ask you this, would you write your mother, father, wife or children. I think we all know the answer to that. in your thinking they are no different and dont deserve a warning. like i said before i give warning to citizens and i will give them to cops. Also to you holier than thou badge heavy traffic cops, dont let me catch you drinking free coffee down at the local gas station, or receive a discounted meal at the local eateries. The next thing you know you will take cream from the local bars and let drug dealers sell drugs on your beat. GIVE ME A BREAK!
Common Sense and Ronin,
Fellas. You need to relax. This is a discussion not a shouting match. If we are going to talk professionalism here, there is no need to pop off at your brothers and sisters just because they disagree with you.
I didn’t see one post that advocated writing other cops tickets no matter what. What I do see is a concern that professional courtesy is thought of as an entitlement. Like I said before, I’ve never written a fellow officer and I’ve stopped plenty. But I’ve also never stopped one DUI or one doing 30 over in a residential area. Does that cop get a break too? Reason I ask is because that was the decision a buddy of mine faced. The stopped cop clearly thought he shouldn’t be ticketed. What would you do Common Sense?
We might disagree but I’m with you everyday. Stay safe. I’d talk more but I have to go get a ladder so I can climb back up on my high horse…hahahaha.
As I have stated I will never write another cop a traffic ticket. Now any crime not a violation that would be something else after all I have taken an oath just like the rest of you have. But I am also the same guy who will stop to help a fellow LEO even if I am not on duty. Just remember fellas Be safe out there and just remember to look out for the guys and gals in the public safety areana. Thanks for all you guys do!!!
Frank,
Let me give you a real story of what many officers are fed up with. On August 22 ,2008 a Perth Amboy, NJ, officer Thomas Raji is killed while driving his police cruiser. He is survived by his wife also a Perth Amboy officer and his child that she was pregnant with when he died. He was struck at an intersection of Route 1 in Woodbridge by a drunk driver. This driver now is doing time in jail for the incident. Me along with other officers went to the funeral and stood at attention at this horrific event.
I can tell you for a fact that the individual that was intoxicated had been stopped several times before that incident occurred by fellow friends of mine that are officers in the surrounding municipalities. He was stopped and was intoxicated but not once was he arrested let alone given a summons for anything. In other words he had a clean driving record. One has to ask himself why that was going on? The intoxicated individual was the brother of a Woodbridge, NJ police officer.
The question one has to ask themselves is that if that man had been previously arrested and lost his license most likely this unfortunate death of a fellow officer would have been prevented. But here in NJ, PBA country, the officer that dared to have arrested him would have been ostracized by his fellow officers and the PBA would have silently behind the scenes tried to push him out of the system. That gang mentality applied by the PBA in NJ intimidates and makes aggressive police officers be afraid and not do their job. If an officer decides to do his job, or as it would be termed here, go against the flow, then his life is made miserable and they try to fire him for stupid things. God forbid that you give a summons to someone that is related to an officer in NJ or has a PBA card. That officer will never hear the end of it.
The fact is that an officer’s number one priority is to his badge. In other words to do the job, to uphold the law, he swore to God that he will do and that the public expects him to do!! The PBA would not exist if the police departments did not exist, not the other way around. I am not saying that an officer should not help a fellow officer, because I do even when I am off duty! Where does one draw the imaginary blue line? That line should be where the public’s expectations are! The actions based on the mentality I earlier described is what give us a bad image in front of the public’s eye. Again I ask you where do you draw the line? When that drunk officer of drunk relative of an officer kills your wife and child???? A police officer is a way of life not a job! We have strayed away from that.
Be safe out there…
Everyone seems to return to DUI. I never suggested DUI as a courtesy. I said BS traffic violations. Why is this so hard to understand?
ronnin i think you are the only one that gets it. TRAFFIC TICKET. NOT DUI, MURDER, ROBBERY, RAPE. CO i will tell you what i would do. depending on the severity of the intoxication i would take appropriate action. just like i would a citizen. if he was borderline he would get a ride. if he was drunk he would go. that is not the issue. the issue is the feeling that some policeman believe they are better than others and that when a badge comes their jurisdiction going 10 miles over they get the skin. but deep down we all know the same ticketing badges will speed through mine. you know what they say about those who live in glass houses. And we all know these types of cops. so lets not kid outselves here. i am just being real. A traffic ticket is just that. and i give breaks all day long to citizens so i will continue to give them to cops. and by the way here is a quote from one of the BADGE HEAVY TRAFFIC ENFORCER FROM ABOVE,”Posts from officers like Dan encourage me. He is willing to spank an officer for breaking the law when it is needed.”
oh and to the observer, i would agree that he should have been dealt with, but you know as well as i do not having a license does not prevent anyone from driving. also repeated dui’s mean nothing to many people. i am not in favor turning a blind eye to criminal acts. but speeding tickets, seatbelt cites, and whatever the hell to many fish crimes are, Are B.S. these are descretionary tickets. and these crimes dont equate to dirty cops.
Common Sense,
Step back and look what you just said. You and Ronin are the “only ones that get it”? Hmmmm. That doesn’t give you pause at all? “Depending on the severity of the intoxication” you would take appropriate action? That sounds like a very slippery and steap slope. “Some policemen think they are better than others when a badge comes to their jurisdiction 10 over…”. Wow.
You need to read Frank’s column again. What he very diplomatically said was that professional courtesy is fine and appropriate most of the time. However, if I do something to get stopped, the definition of professional courtesy is defines by the on-duty officer (likely with my input). If that officer decides I did something that needs enforcement, he gets to decide that. I can’t think less of him or bad mouth him because he didn’t create the contact, I did.
Again, thanks for the talk and stay safe. Frank, nice job again creating some food for thought. We need to have these discussions “in the house”.
Co, there is no slippery slope. Drunk is Drunk. i am not equating that with really any part of this conversation. what i am talking about is a stupid traffic infraction. the kind like speeding, seat belt and things of that nature. that is all i am yaking about. i love cops and i believe we are the chosen people. i am saying that really quite frankly i have seen cops treated worse than citizens by other cops. I would one hundreded percent agree that the cop who created the traffic infraction also created the situation for the stopping cop and therefore should not expect courtesy. However, it will be given if it is me stopping the car.
i would also say that there are some hypocritical people writing their beliefs. like i said earlier. the same people who said they were proud of cops writing other cops are the same people who take free coffee, discounted meals and drive fast in my community. i would also like you read the entire statment about driving fast through the jurisdication. you only quoted a partial statement. i was pointing out the hypocrisy of these cops. None of us live at the foot of the cross. and i am not yelling. the nice thing about america, we can agree to disagree.
i also like to argue:)
Kudo’s to CO cop for some rational input on this subject. It’s fine with me if an LEO adopts a personal rule for themselves that they simply will not write another cop. But where does one get the attitude of entitlement expressed in some of these posts. Perhaps all of these added benefits mentioned in some of the posts could be included in future recruiting brochures, such as, freedom from prosecution of driving offenses, free coffee, reduced meals, exemption of fish, game & wildlife codes. Stay safe out there!
Been on the job 5 years now. I’ve heard stories of cops writing cops. I never believed them. I hope the ones writting here are not on the job but are some wantabees posting and pretending. I would never write A brother for a traffic violation, NEVER! I agree DUI is not a minor traffic violation. If you hit something or someone else your going to have to pay the price. If it’s self intiated stop and you had a little to much to drink then your going to park your car and call for a ride home. And as far as flashing your badge when An officer comes to your window, why the he’ll would that bother someone. I like to know right away how I’m dealing with.
Hey 5 years,
You are dealing with it fine and doing fine with it.
Welcome to the greatest profession in the world–enjoy and be your self. You appear to exhibiting a professional prosperous attitude. Be safe!
Hey 5 years,
I forgot to tell you—-Glad to have you & glad you are with us!
Hey 5 Year,
5 years on the job and you are all salty. Very nice. Maybe in the next 5 years you’ll learn to talk to your peers with some respect. I’ve too have never written another cop a ticket and don’t plan to. But I’d never for a minute infer that the officers here that have different view points are wannabes and pretenders. I’d imagine that most of them have had to sacrifice and face danger during their time of service. Just like you Salty. I assume from your stance that Mr. Borelli must also be a pretender. 5 years huh? Don’t believe it. 5 minutes maybe.
CO Cop and Avenger and 20 years thank you for at least understanding. As for Mr. 5 years..I have been on the job just over 10 years…make over 2500 motor vehicle stops per year, write over 2000 summons per year, make 20 to 30 DUI arrest per year…and the list goes on. I bet my stats are more for the year than your whole career!!
Back to my last sentence of my last post. BEING A POLICE OFFICER IS A WAY OF LIFE NOT ONLY A JOB! Once an officer digests that, everything else starts becoming crystal clear!
I was not referring to a non arrestable traffic offense in my previous post. I was specific about DUI. As I previously stated, this professional courtesy with some officers has NO LIMIT, NO BOUNDARY. Please make a DUI arrest of an officer’s relative, friend, acquaintance or even their plumber and see what kind of attitude you will get from your fellow officers. Again, not all of your fellow officers fall in this category but the steadfast PBA union hacks which is a majority fall into this category.
I can show you in car video after video, report after report documenting my arrests where officer’s wives, girlfriends, etc openly and arrogantly EXPECT themselves not to be arrested for DUI. In fact off duty officers have the audacity to come to the scene asking me to not make the arrest!
Let’s take it one step further. Please make a drug arrest of another officer’s son or daughter and see what happens to you. All of the sudden you will be getting anonymous complaints and all kinds of frivolous IA complaints…all in an effort to make your life miserable.
Let’s address the simple motor vehicle infraction. It is not about speeding through my jurisdiction. It is about feeling entitled of being above the law. Again the majority of those individuals that hand you one of those family NJ PBA cards EXPECT not to get a summons and yet your MDT shows that they get stopped on a regular basis and have never received a summons!! Even worse, the officers that gave them those cards EXPECT you not to give them a summons. Try doing your job and if you give them a summons some PBA president or delegate will be calling you asking you why you did it!!
This is the dirty secret that gives us police officers a bad image in the public’s eye. Any officer who gives another officer lip service for having issued a summons (DOING HIS JOB) does not deserve to wear that badge!
It has gotten so bad in NJ that the issue soon will have to be addressed by the attorney general. Officers who believe and understand what I say do not feel that we are above the law but we are the keepers of the law. Otherwise we are no different that the gang members we arrest. Furthermore we do not hide like cowards behind “discretion”!
Thank you
Good morning guys! If I were to treat this like “Celebrity Rehab” or “AA/NA” I would have to introduce myself like this, I’m a Deputy Sheriff with 22 years and I have written two LEO’s during my career. I guess I would be sitting in a room surrounded by other cops who would be considered A-holes, traffic nazi’s, wannabees, pretenders or just generally holier-than-thou types. But before you pass judgement, let me tell you more about me.
I went up the ranks to Lieutenant, before asking for a voluntary demotion back down to grunt for no other reason except I wanted to DO police work, not supervise police work. I respond to calls all shift long. When I have down time, I actively look for the turds of society. I don’t spend time dealing with normal law abiding citizens who happen to violate a traffic law, it’s usually a quick warning so I can get back into the hunt for what I really want, dirt bags. I definitely use traffic violations as a way to inject myself into the lives of the turds within my patrol sector. I generally give warnings to all normal law abiding citizens and I rarely cut any breaks to a turd, not even the lowest cheese charge. I like to consider myself at war with the criminal element of society and will do anything to make their lives miserable. I can only hope that this doesn’t come off as holier-than-thou, but isn’t that what we want to do, catch bad guys.
If you would have asked me if I would have ever thought that I would be writing another LEO for a traffic infraction, I would have answered, “No Way”. I work in a Virginia county in the the Washington DC suburban area, so over the course of my career I have stopped close to a hundred LEO’s, every imaginable Federal agency plus all brands of departments from Virginia, Maryland and DC. There is probably another hundred that I didn’t stop because it was obvious to me that they were operating some type of federal unmarked vehicle. On the flip side, I’ve been stopped about ten times over the past 22 years and released with everything from a laugh to a dressing down that reminded me of my extended stay at Parris Island courtesy of the Marine Corps. Every time, even with the humbling and embarrasing dress down by a Maryland State Police First Sergeant, I knew that I was wrong and deserved whatever came my way. Had I received a ticket from any of those encounters, I would have simply paid it and moved on. I would not have held a grudge and sworn to ticket the next officer from that agency or any of that other animosity stuff.
So when I came to a point where I did write a LEO, hopefully you have a picture now to know that it was not coming from a position of being an A-hole or thinking that traffic means anything more to me other than a way to get at criminals. Here is the outcome of the two LEO’s that I wrote, one was held in contempt of court for his outburst towards the judge. For anybody who has been on the job long enough to see that display in court, you know that it wasn’t pretty on the street. The next one was the 92/55, and believe me you can’t make this stuff up. He didn’t show up for a mandatory court appearance so a bench warrant was issued. I went to his department to serve the warrant and was notified that two weeks prior he had resigned, unknown to me he was a muslim convert who had been quite a pain for his department, he was headed for termination and decided to beat them to it by quitting. They let me know that he had left the Country to live in the Middle East, but they stongly believed that our Country would hear from him again, some type of American taliban.
I think I’ve gone on long enough. So I’ll close with this, if you ask me if I think I’ll ever write another LEO, I would say probably not, it certainly isn’t and never was my intention to do that, but not everyone who wears a uniform should be wearing a uniform. All cops are human and have shortcomings, I understand that because I’m there too. But if I ever find myself on a traffic stop dealing with a LEO who walks, talks and quacks like a dirt bag then I’m confident he’ll take a charge. And I’ll probably be sitting it that circle, saying, Hi, I’m a Deputy Sheriff and I wrote a cop a ticket.
Hope no one is offended by any sarcasm that is meant as humor. I’m not trying to impart my values on anybody else or say that they are better than any others, just sharing my view on the subject. Since I mentioned one agency in my post, MSP, I’ll say that from what I could tell with my exchange with the First Sergeant they are a outstanding agency with dedicated crimefighters.
Stay safe out there!
I also give professional courtesy to many of the same types of people mentioned in this article. Fellow police officers, doctors, nurses, military servicemen etc… but I think DUI is one thing I would definitely take another officer to jail for. There is just no excuse for that kind of behavior, especially from an officer that knows better.
i love the debate this sparked. and i agree with most of the posts here, however i dont think it is important to put your stats on here like you are a god. that is a little narcissistic dont you think. i have done the job more than a day or so and am not impressed. but i think there is a sharp difference in the cops of today and those of 15 to 20 years ago. and the change is not always for the better. and i think observer makes my case about those “types” of cops.
I have to ask, and I’ll preface this by stating that I am not a LEO. Someone earlier mentioned not writing LEO’s for “BS traffic violations.” Why write a ticket to anyone for a “BS” violation? Sure, discretion exists and should be used. Sure, as long as discretion exists it will be (ab)used (depending on the view point) on the whim of the person who has the discretion which will be based on any relationship present. However saying that you won’t enforce an infraction (be it fish and game, traffic, etc) against a LEO because it’s a LEO makes it sound in the same breath that those same laws are enforced against everyone else only for the enjoyment of the officer.
Now whether that person meant it that way or not, I’m not sure. I have no doubt that there are a-hole officers (one of the few global rules, there are a-holes in every field). Similarly, I have no doubt that they make up a minority of officers. However, the public does bristle when it’s made clear that some officers feel that there’s one standard for them and a separate standard for everyone else.
Mr Avenger thanks again. Just a note to this day I have not written a police officer, have come close. My argument is somewhat unique here in NJ. You see the PBA hands out these courtesy cards like candy.
Mr. Common Sense, the only reason that I put the stats in was in response to Mr. 5 years. The “types” of cops that you classify me is the type that does his job. You either do it or do not. I guess you must fit the type that does not but instead would waste time stopping someone to inform them that they broke the law…MMMM…boy tax dollars at work! NUMBER ONE RULE IN HUMAN BEHAVIOR (NOT MY OPINION) THE ONLY MOTIVATION FOR A HUMAN TO OBEY THE LAW IS FEAR OF GETTING CAUGHT AND HAVING TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES!! Need I say more…The cops today realize that sitting in the donut shop does not cut it. The taxpayer expects work..and they should get what tney pay for.
I g
I made the BS statement and if you would have read further I do not write any citizen that has not earned it with their demeanor. Traffic enforcement is a tool for us. Revenue for our bosses. I don’t like writing anyone. But John Q can definitely and has definitely earned tickets from me.
You guys who are so holy and high and mighter, that you think its some kind of corruption to give another cop a break on a traffic ticket or minor complaint, or even stopping him all alone on a back road after having too much to drink. This job is tough enough without fools like you. Remember that when YOU make a mistake rushing to get your kid at practice, or even better when YOUR kid is driving and a fellow officer stops him for a minor infraction. I’ve been 32 years in this profession and held every job but Chief in it. Unlike you beautiful perfect people, some folks have a bad day here out there and aren’t paying attention and make a mistake. They’re human. I’ve been extending professional courtesy for all of those 32 years. If someone plows into another car drunk, then there’s nothing you can do, they blew it, and they should go the bumpy road. But minor infractions, like a little over the speed limit, please. There were a lot of guys posting here who are most likely excellent police officers, because they use common sense. Two things I’ll leave with. One I treat common citizens the same way. Treat them all like they were your boss or your mother until the interaction goes otherwise. And second a short story. A retired Captain friend of mine traveling on his motor out west, Idaho, Oregon area, crossing from a non-helmet state to a helmet required state. He always wears it but it was 105 degrees that day on the interstate and he didn’t. Pulling into the rest stop with a buddy to put their helmets on, they get pulled over. The officer or Trooper starts right out of the car reading them the riot act, about can’t they read and see the 20′ wide sign that say helmets required. Capt. says he’s sorry and he is a retired officer from back East, 35 years. Trooper says “So what” “What difference does that make” and pontificates for a minute going over and over about “what makes you any different from anyone else out here!”. Capt.’s buddy wants to say shut up and write your damn ticket, but Capt. says, “you know what makes me different from everyone else out here?” “It’s that when I’m driving by and see you on a stop, and some big guy is out fighting you and kicking your ass on the side of the road, I’m going to pull over and help and if needed die with you on the side of the road, while everyone else that never wore a uniform is going to keep on driving by! That’s what makes me different!” Mr. perfect officer or trooper was so PO’d by that that after standing there for a second, he threw the licenses back at them, got in his car and left. But truer words never spoken.
TJ,
After 27 years in this business—Cop–Det–Sgt–Det Sgt—–I feel you pain—-
Thanks for your excellent comment and putting the discussion back where it belongs on professional courtesy.
All the rest of you and me—STOP with the corruption discussion, STOP with the DUI issues, STOP with the other perfection concerns about yourself—-in plain English–be safe and just like you give non-law enforcement drivers a break, take good care of your retired and currently employed brothers and sisters–NO TICKETS.
No law enforcement employee can write every single driver; every single time with a traffic tickets/traffic infractions. Let’s be realistic not fanatical.
Of course, I have been around and I do not know EVERYTHING, but some confused person will twist my words and go off.
I still have FAITH in COPS!!!!
Let all be blue-traditionally speaking I realize there are other colors of uniforms thruout this great USA.
Unless you’ve written YOURSELF a ticket, you have no business writing another cop. Anyone who does when it can be avoided is a jerk. I try not to use the words “always” or “never” loosely, but in this case it’s appropriate. I also don’t hang around the cop bars on duty, on pay night to make sure none of my coworkers are potentially getting into trouble.
So, traffic enforcement is to be used only against the citizenry, and “ALWAYS & NEVER” against fellow police. Wow, what can you say about that? It’s good to be the King!
Here in the Tri state area ( I’m in NJ ) it’s unheard of for a cop to issue a brother or sister officer a traffic summons. That Fish and Game guy sounds like a wanna be who could’nt get a regular Dept to hire him, there are those jerks who are so out of line professional courtesy does’nt work but in 23 yrs I have found them to be few and far between.
Mr.Unbelievable, I think you understand the double standard that the previous officers apply when they perform the job. I guess they get to dictate what the job description is.
I think I am going to attempt one last time to explain things. This time I will break them down further as simply as possible addressing the points of the other posts. All I know is that I challenge those officers to stand in front of a town hall meeting and explain their version of how they do the job and lets see what the public will think. I guarantee you some will face dismissal!!
The whole issue breaks down into three basic principles. ETHICS, JOB FUNCTION and ENTITLEMENT.
I cannot stress that being a police officer is a way of life. No one has even addressed this. No one is perfect and everyone is human and makes mistakes, including myself. WE ARE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD AS POLICE OFFICERS!! What I am saying is that when you get caught making a mistake you pay the price. When you play you pay! Again a simple concept that these officers FAIL to understand.
Mr. Eddie, not twisting your words just reading them. “NO TICKETS” for police officers but I guess that means tickets for the public. Boy very fair and ethical.
MR. TJ the fool is the public for paying you and not doing your job. I guess it is OK to let someone including an off duty officer drive intoxicated until he strikes and kills your wife or kid. An officer should NOT be driving intoxicated on a back road, front road, side road, or main road. AGAIN POLICE OFFICER IS A WAY OF LIFE. That individual should not be one. That is not a human mistake but a blatant poor use of judgement. As for the example with the helmet that you gave, it is not whether he received a ticket but the ENTITLEMENT expectation that he should not. That is what annoyed the Idaho officers. It is the fact that he expects preferential treatment that he is a cop. Thank god there is no PBA out there or he did not know the mayor because I am sure the captain would have thrown that out there also.
I am sick and tired of the using of the example of driving off duty and seeing another officer getting assaulted on the side of the road and stopping to help him. NEWS FLASH, Mr TJ. You are a sworn officer on or off duty anywhere in the country. You should stop and assist whether it is a police officer getting assaulted or a plain citizen. If you do not, in this state it is office misconduct!! Again something you will lose your job for. You are a police officer 24/7 as your oath would dictate.
ETHICS is something every police officer should be educated on, possibly take an in depth course on. So before you give me an ethics argument write a thesis first on it and then let us talk. Ethics is clearly defined by law not by my opinion.
Part of a police officer’s job function is traffic enforcement. Yes traffic enforcement is a tool, but in itself it is part of your job function as it is a quality of life issue in all 50 states.
Hopefully I will soon be responsible for interviewing individuals that want to be officers and I guarantee you that I will weed out all individuals that have such a warped mind set of TJ EDDIE and MAX. If someone slides by me I will have them removed within their probationary period.
I know if anyone from the public is reading this they will appreciate what I say and any officers doing the right thing not by their opinion but by the clear definitions of ETHICS and JOB FUNCTION will continue to fight the tide of those wasting the tax payer money. That is why issues of corruption and DUI are pertinent to be exposed to the public!
If I was driving down the road, off-duty, and saw another officer in trouble I would certainly stop and help. And if I recognized the officer in trouble as one who had written me a speeding ticket the day before, I would still stop and help and wouldn’t think twice about it.
If I get a ticket it is my responsibility for breaking the law. I have never personally written another officer a ticket, but that’s my choice. It is only right to afford that same choice to my brother and sister officers in law enforcement. I have always hated the “officer at the side of the road getting his ass kicked” argument. I would stop and help regardless of how many tickets that cop had written me, and anyone who wouldn’t is probably not someone you want to stop and help anyway.
I choose not to ticket other LEO’s because I believe that, in law enforcement, there are no strangers, only friends you haven’t met yet.
However, if I do something to get pulled over and my friend the cop decides to ticket me, that’s fine with me. If anything, I’d be mad at myself for doing something stupid. But I would never disrespect my brother or sister officer for choosing to do their job in the manner that seems proper to them.
To my fellow officers and human beings including The Observer—-
Please understand I refer to the nation wide authority granted to all law enforcement within their respective states of employment to the principle of discretionary enforcement to traffic violations. Not applicable to felony and misdeameanor crimes. The discretionary authority which is granted to us for traffic violations is not viewed as not performing my duty, responsibility, obligation or job.It is an apparent function of position and action for us by us. It is the spirit of law, not the letter of law. No where, is it written that you must write a traffic ticket for a traffic violation to a cop or any other driver–it is an apparent tool provided for law enforcement.
This is the part where I refer to the TWIST of a confused participant in this discussion—
It is a choice and judgement provided to us. It is part of our law enforcement heritage, culture, position and life. It does not create corruption, it is NOT a crime to decide not to write other police officers. I think about the non-law enforcement drivers I have used my discretionary authority not to write a traffic violation.
I know I did the right thing the right way for the right reason, not to write them or any cop, cop’s family member. I would not write the observer, his wife, or family members. That is my decision of excercising my discretionary authority following my departmental policies, procedures, laws, and environment.
I do occasionally write traffic tickets when I, based on my training, education, experience, and instruction decide it is applicable. Please DON’T call me JUDGE AND JURY–You know that is not what I mean or saying. Remember discretion is an authoritative tool for us.
If I have failed to help you understand my discretionary choice and decision, that is my fault–not your comprehension.
Thanks for helping me to be who I am—a cop.
Judge and Jury right on the street. You’re in the club or not. Cop ( and whomever they favor, badge or cleavage) or perp. Any wonder law enforcement can’t buy respect?
Since my views on this topic are well known, I’ll skip the usual arguments. However, a couple of observations:
1. Frank, you know this is the third rail of police journalism. Touch it and watch the sparks fly.
2. What an odd “brotherhood” this is. I can take a bullet for you, drag your unconscious body from a flaming pool of corrosive acid, or get my skull half caved in while extracting you from a bar fight. Any sacrifice I make for a “brother” is expected, just as I can expect it from you. But if I write you a ticket for screaming through a 35 mph zone (that you **knew** was a 35 mph zone) at 60 mph, my membership in the “brotherhood” is cancelled. If I do my job as I have sworn to do it, I’m scum. It makes me consider why I choose to make the other sacrifices and take the risks for people who are so petty.
TIM DEES- how about you look at your story the other way around. Maybe it was you that did all those heroic actions only to be written a nonsense traffic violation by a fellow officer who is sworn to and MUST uphold every last traffic violation. If you were actually summoned it would make you feel that your job is worthless and means nothing.
Ive gone crazy over this topic the last few weeks, and i TOTALLY agree with OLD SCHOOL and RONIN. We just dont summons other cops. along with nurses, DRs etc. For 1, I think its our region (northeast) and 2, I think all of us with that view are from a busy atmosphere. But theres just some officers that cant let go of their you know what for 1 second. heres an example: After learning of an incident which occurred in VA, I was told a fleet of marked dept vehicles from a large City PD driving south to aide in the relief efforts of Hurricane Katrina did have emergency lights on since it was a large convoy. This convoy was stopped by several units and lectured on the side of the road and threatened to be summoned and/or jailed for their actions. PLEASE i was appalled by this nonsense
And I also know 3 fellow Officers who were driving south with family and all were summonsed. 1 instance went something like this, “I did not ask to see you ID, just your drivers license.” (what if the officer asks you to step out of the vehicle and sees a firearm, thats why we ID ourselves, lack of training IMO.) Violation was 11 mph over the limit.
second event was just post 9/11, PO driving south to visit his family after working ground zero for almost 4 months. stopped and ID’d himself and received summonses for 70 in 65, obstruction of view - windshield (items hanging from mirror)
GIVE me a BREAK. situations like these irk me beyond my comprehension.
GIVE me a BREAK.
There is a very good reason I practice professional courtesy. One more than one occassion I have been in a knock down drag out rolling around on the ground fight that wasn’t going good for me anytime quick. While multiple civilians stopped to see the possible beat down, the only one who jumped in to help was the off duty cop driving by in a vehicle with his family.
When the chips are down there are not alot of civilians that can be counted on, but every off duty cop will stop and help a brother officer if he has too.
This is the stuff the NEW generation of cops is being taught….this is the ONLY
Ticket another cop? This is the stuff the NEW Guys are being taught….You have to be a real AH as a police officer to get a traffic ticket from me. That officer you just ticketed might be passing by as you’re fighting for your life….keep that in mind.This is the only legitmate break we get anymore as LEO’s and as far as retirees go…..THEYRE COPS!
I agree with Dan. I am not a cop and I would not help my local cops. I have seen them too many times harassing the local youth or the poor on the street. I am a social worker and those are my clients he is giving a hard time to. My small town cops fell they are above the law. If one was on fire I would have to stop and drink a gallon of gas before urinating on him.
Don’t worry about it “Dick”..we’ll still save you when you cry for help.
Lots of differing opinions. I appreciate “professional courtesy” regardless of the profession. I have received tickets and been let off, as a civilian, Marine, and Federal LEO. Excepting one occassion, “profesdional courtesy” was extended to me. As many of you stated, the courtesy begins with you, the alleged violator. I have NEVER argued a ticket by the road side. I have always responded with “yes/no sir/maam.”
I generally keep my DL with my credentials as a matter of my own organzational skill. God forbid something happen to me that I am unable to ID myself to one of you. My DL has my home address (you know where I live), my creds also contain my medical insurance cards (the docs know from whom to get their pounds of money for my care), and most importantly, my creds are there so you now know who can id me as one of the good guys and also know why I have that 870P or handgun with spent rounds around me!
The one time professional courtesy was not extending to me involved a young officer you thought he saw me do an illegal U-turn in front of a fire station in my POV. He was citing another driver at the time. In the process of getting my DL, I had to open my creds. He saw my badge and stated “So, you think you’re going to get out of this just because you have a badge?” To which I responded, by articulating what I just described above. He cited me and I said, “Thank you, sir, and have a safe and great weekend.” The magistrate extending me the professional courtesy, no fine, no lecture, just “Thank you, sir. You too make sure you stay safe. Thank you and all your colleagues for what you have done and what you do.” The young officer and I shook hands afterward and chalked it up to experience. I hope he learned something.
Bottom line is, traffik violations aren’t crimes against humanity, but, someone has to enforce those “rules.” I don’t like getting tickets any more than anyone else. But, I don’t ridiculte or berate anyone for doing his/her job. It doesn’t make them any more or less of an officer. Remember, there are those managers out there that expect a certain amount of “widgets.” I’m just another widget and will act accordingly.
Amazing “Dick!” You want to be a social worker and save and save the crack headed psychopaths, sociopaths while they attempt to rape, kill, pillage, burn, law abiding citizens just because these incorrigibles may have had an abusive mommy or daddy. Yet, you want to urinate gasoline on an officer just because you don’t like his/her attitude? Just remember, that same officer with your perception of a nasty attitude is going to be the same one who throws your dumb butt into the back of his cruiser risking his own life (remember, one of your reprobates you are so in love with is probably is the one who set him on fire)trying to get you to the hospital to save your worthless life after drinking gasoline in your attmempt to kill him. I would trust the officer with the most vile of attitudes over a bleeding heart social worker who values criminals’ comforts over those who sworn to protect even you.
God Bless all (even you “Dick”), and have a great/safe weekend. And remember the Police Memorial quote (paraphrased) It’s not how you die that makes you a hero, it’s how you live!
Hello Brother’s and Sister’s…
I am not a Law Enforcement Officer..Yet.
I am currently an active duty Captain in Afghanistan. I will be retiring in about years, and guess what I want to do after I retire? That’s right, I want to be a deputy.
Reading the past comments is very interesting to me. It just shows I will be coming from one job where the comraderie is great and going to another one. Extending professional curtesy for minor infractions only fosters more respect, in my opinion. I have been stopped before and let go when the officer see’s my military Id and I have been ticketed before. To me it’s no big deal. Rest assured, if I am ever given the honor of being a Sheriff’s deputy, I would never ticket a fellow officer unless he is just doing 120 in that 35.
God bless all you guys and thanks for what you do!
Stpn2me
To clarify,
I am in one job that has great comraderie and hopefully going to another one that has that same feeling of brother and sisterhood. That is what excites me….
Airborne! All the way…
I appears the Taliban are attacking our computer keyboards..
I will retire in about “2″ years…
Mike thank you for understanding. Eddie you just prove my point! I love when officers bring out your arguments!!
Discretion is the root of the problem and it will continue to be curtailed thanks to zero tolerance policy by supervisors and departments! Stop hiding behind discretion. If you use “YOUR DISCRETION” and never ticket a relative or acquaintance of a police officer than to be FAIR AND UNBIASED” you MUST apply that same discretion to the general public not related to officers otherwise it becomes SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT! This means that you should never ticket the general public either ever! This selective enforcement is what gives law enforcement a bad name. This DISCRETIONARY SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT be is what causes different classes of individuals those privileged and those not. Again that gives law enforcement officers a bad name. In NJ officers hide behind this NON ETHICAL argument and do not enforce the DUI in those instances!! They expand this to an officer’s son or daughter caught with a little weed on them etc etc etc… EDDIE you did not address your unethical behavior. Our job is to be fair and unbiased and not hide behind biased discretion!! I am going to say it again here in NJ the PBA will make you an outcast for doing your job. I do not know how much simpler I can make it. I will say it again any officer who cannot grasp this concept must study ethics and I mean study.
Wanna write a cop and talk about ethics? No problem. But write me for a minor traffic violation and you’d better be prepared to defend your own driving when I do a FOIA request for your patrol car video….every day….until I don’t feel like doing it anymore. Drive too fast to lunch? Blow a red light on a non-emergency run? Drive like an idiot to a run after dispatch tells you there are enough units at the scene? Continue a chase after the boss tells you to break it off? Park in front of your own house for an hour?
Like Forest Gump said: “Chickenshit is as chickenshit does.” There ARE mechanisms in place for a citizen to sign a complaint for a civil traffic infraction. I know what that process is and if the city attorney isn’t willing to sign a complaint on you after you sign the complaint on me, the next stop is the newspaper.
I can’t agree with the idea that letter of the law enforcement should be exercised against police officers. We give courtesy to civilians constantly! Why would we not give the same courtesy to law enforcement, military, fire or people in the emergency medical field?
I can’t believe someone said giving an officer a warning is corruption! For those that say they apply the law exactly the same to everyone:
Do you arrest the local priest for having church bingo games? It’s a felony for you to ignore gaming violations.
Do you arrest your Sheriff for accepting cash campaign donations?
Do you pull over speeders? You would have to break the speed limit to pull behind them and detaining someone for an infraction doesn’t meet the criteria for legally violating the Vehicle Code.
If you stop every traffic violator you see, how many hours and cite books does it take you to get to work?
There exists a letter of the law and a spirt of the law. The spirit of the law allows civilians AND officers who make mistakes to get warnings, and gang members to get arrested for breathing if you states penal code allows it.
Ditto to “There exists a letter of the law and a spirt of the law”. I think it all boils down to there are unintentional accidents / lapses in judgements; and then there are flagrant violations that you should have known better to do and if you don’t you have no business being a cop. Yes, I am going to cut a brother a break if it is a lapse in judgement (speeding, open container, or other regulatory violations). Likewise, his butt is going to jail like everyone else if he blows (well over) the legal limit, commits an assault that is so flagrant there is no way to justify it as self defense, etc., etc. This is of course a judgement call, and my personal rule is if I would not have a problem putting a relative in jail for the same things, then it is fair game on the street for all. And by the way, I don’t blame the officer for writing the game violation either, this was a flagrant “the rules don’t apply to me” violation, not a “I thought the fish had to be 12 inches, I didn’t know it had changed to 14 inches” mistake that we can all make. Its the cops that do crap like that and then brag about it to non officers that give us all a bad name.
Professional courtesy is something that is extended from one officer to another. From one state to the next. We as officer should take care of each other, and watch out for each other, we are the largest brotherhood in the world and we should be proud of that fact and stand beside each other, and traffic citations should not even be a consideration. I have been in this business 31 years and I have never written a cop. God Bless and stay safe.
I would like to share my story with you all. I am a disabled police officer with Chicago PD. I was involved in a police shooting in summer of 2002 during a covert surveillance operation related to narcotics investigation. Two bad guys shot five people. I sustained life changing injuries to my lower neck and right shoulder. I am currently a Doctorate student in Strategic Security and Counterterrorism. I was visiting my parents living in Bazetta Ohio. On Feb 9th, 2010 at around 1950hrs my wife was forced to go and get milk for the baby. She had to drive in the middle of one of the worst snow storms they had in Ohio with a foot of snow on the ground. About a mile from my parents house, a local Bazetta Township police unit, PO Christopher Herlinger, stopped my wife for an expired license plates. The first question he asked my wife was “Why do you have an FOP sticker on the rear bumper?” my wife told him that I was a police officer from CPD. The officer shined his mag light inside the car and observed three of my online school books related to counterterrorism in the frnt passenger seat.He immediatly started yelling at my wife and became very angry. He made my wife cry and she was forced to call me. She advised me on the phone that the officer told her to park the fucking car and go home. She wanted me to pick her up. I told her if she inform the officer that I was a disabled fellow PO. She told him about me again and I was hearing the conversaion over the phone when she did that. She also asked him if he would consider giving her a ride back because I cant drive to pick her up. He responded while yelling at her” Your fucking last name is Ahmad and your husband is a cop?” I had no choice but to drive my mother’s car to pick my wife up. My dad is fighting cancer and my mother had to stay with him at home during that particular incident. As I arrived at the scene, the PO asked me “who the fuck are you?” I was very polite and told him she is my wife. he then asked me “what’s your name? Are you a cop? I responded by saying “Yes, I am a fellow police officer from CPD and I was disabled. He asked me for IDs and I handed him my duty disability badge and police id. I really expected him to calm down and show us some respect. He responded by telling me “You’re lucky I’m not towing your fucking car”. I made a mistake and asked him if we could drive the car home since it was snowing and it was very dangerous to keep the car on the side of the road, he stated “I don’t give a fuck who you are, and don’t give a shit who you work for” “You can’t touch this car”. He gave my wife a citation. I called a towing truck and towed my car to my motehr’s home which was only few blocks away. The next day I called and left a message for the Chief of police and kindly asked him to return my call. I identified my self on the phone and told him that I would like to discuss the officer’s attitude and mistreatment of my wife and I during the traffic stop. I never in my life and in my 20 years as a PO gave another officer or his faimly a citation. The chief returned my call exactly two days later at 1000hrs. He asked me if I could actually visit him and speak to him in person. I agreed to meet with him. As I got to the police station “Bazetta Township Police Department” a small police department with only 7 police officers. The chief asked me to sit down and started to ask me questions. He refused to give me any chance to speak about the officer and the traffic stop. He asked me who I was and who I worked for? I handed him my police ID card which shows that I am on Duty Disablity and a Disabled Chicago Police Officer. He took my ID and called in the PO himslef who happened to be waiting in the next room listening to our conversation. He sat down and also started to physically examine my police ID as if it was stolen. I felt awkward, and I wanted to calm them down since they were acting strange. He asked me what was I doing in there town? I told them I was visiting my parents. I also give them one of my old contact cards with my current phone number, and told them that I am a doctorate student and offered my services and help at any time based on my educational background and fluency in three languages Spanish, Arabic, and English. To my surprise he stood up and called in two federal agents who were also standing in the next room listening to our conversation. They walked to me and identified themselves. I didnt have a problem with them, but I was very surprised and angry becasue the chief was avoiding my efforts to complaine about the officer’s behavior with us during the straffic stop. The agents insisted that I take them to my parents home and show them more of my Identification to prove that I was who I was. The cops have called the feds and told them that I was possibly a terrorist becasue of the books they found in my car. I am Middle Eastern by the way. I agreed to take them to the house. We got to the house and I showed them more IDs. They were stund and angry at the same time becasue I wasnt lying to them. Few days later, the same Agents came back to my parents house with a signed search warrant!!! The warrant was for any police identification cards , and for a chicago police badge!!! About four different federal agencies came to the house about 20 of them. They towed my car because the books where insdie of it, and took all of my IDs inclduing my Police IDs and badge. They also took all of my school books I had with me and folders that contained reseacrh materials. The police officer and his chief have clearly racially profiled me and reported me to the feds as a possible terrorist. The feds did not know who I was and got involved based on the Chief’s initial complaint. They thought I was lying about who I was and that I was some how a threat. It has been over a month now. The feds did not charge me with anything sinse I never committed any type of crime. I am sure that they have identified who I was and confirmed that I am a doctorate student with Henley-Putnam University studying Strategic Security and Counterterrorism. I am interested hearing any of your thoughts about my case, and to encourage all POs to extend their respect to other police officer that have served and put their lifes on the line. On Oct 17, 1996 my Police partner and best friend was shot and killed in the line of duty. For what ever its worth, I hope that no one experiences what I have gone through. I also hope that all active POs not forget our disbaled Police brothers and sisters who served our country. Thank you for reading my case and I hope to hear back from any of you with any advice and thoughts. Take care and be safe.
Sincerely,
N.M
Neil,
I feel terrible that you were treated that way, but my feeling would be the same if you were just a regular civilian and never law enforcement.
The case with your wife. I would have given her the assistance needed after her having explained the situation. Again I would have given her the same assistance even if you were not an officer.
My problem comes in when under normal circumstances friends, relatives etc and even individuals falsely claiming they are relatives (I cannot prove it on atop and officers lie to cover for their stupid friends) EXPECT to not get cited. I have a big problem when I do give the summons and fellow officers have the audacity to make you a dirt bag.
For the record. No relative of mine or friend EVER expects to get a break. They should not been breaking the law in the first place and last time I checked it was a LAW.
I will give you a perfect example. I stop a van all over a highway. The driver is so intoxicated that he stumbles out of the van. Instead of his license, insurance and registration he give me a gold family NJ PBA card, (the metal ones that are used as a get out of jail card). While out on the stop he calls his distant family member which happens to be a police officer. That officer had the AUDACITY to ask me not to arrest him. Meanwhile my computer indicated that he had been stopped nine times in the last year, same time of night. I make the arrest and the next day I have to hear from some NJ PBA president who also had the AUDACITY to chastise me for doing my job. The fact that the individual was drunk was irrelevant to that PBA president. Here is where that double standard comes in. If it was another citizen it would have been no problem. That is how bad it is here in NJ. That PBA idiot wanted me to exercise SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT.
By the way P.B.in TX. Here is your quote:
“should take care of each other, and watch out for each other, we are the largest brotherhood in the world and we should be proud of that fact and stand beside each other,”
You just defined a gang. That is why the public has a negative view of law enforcement. Do as I say and not as I do mentality is wrong!!
The Observer,
Thank you for a great response. I can’t disagree with you at all. The only thing I would like to add is that we have to take care of each other. I could describe never in words the great sense of respect and pride I have for serving my country. Every one of us deserves nothing but great appreciation. I will continue to pray for the safety and well being of every PO and Soldier putting their lifes on the line to protect and serve our great Nation. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and expressing you views. Take care and God Bless.
Well, as Tim said, it appears I touched that “third rail” and indeed the sparks did fly. Thank you to everyone who commented. I think it speaks positive volumes about the fraternal brotherhood today that so many officers just assume that they would extend professional courtesy and that it will be extended to them - short of them being a total jerk. Let’s all remember that when society seems to fall apart, we hang together. The Thin Blue Line…
I was stopped on I-95 in Baltimore by a member of an agency I retired from, Although I did not know the officer personally he approached me with the usual caution. I identified myself as a retiree via ID and Shield, he asked if I had been drinking and I replied yes I have.
He asked me to perform several field test along side of the highway and I complied. I felt I did pretty good but in his opinon which counts I did not.
He called in on the radio advised dispatch and his supervisor of the situation and the response from dispatch and his supervisor was to lock me up impound my car and set my paassenger out on the highway on foot.
I was arrested transported to the station where I was cited with 7 different citations. All because the supervisor then was a subordinate of mine and during our history he was called down a few times for excessive enforcement actions.
I went to court the charging officer appoligized stating he was ordered to do what he did. I did receive PBJ and was called before the Judge who read me the riot act.
I have seen the officer since then and he still feels ashamed of what he did. I don’t condone the arresting officer he was following orders but I gave breaks to many of people maybe not impounding my car could have been a break and maybe two citations but 7?
Anyway It was very embarrasing, MY FAULT,but the young officer did do the right thing to save his job.
My friend had to walile in the cold without a jacket that was excessive they could have taken him to a public place where their was heat.
Anyway Cops today are a VERY DIFFERETN BREED from years ago, then we cared about each other today they eat each other for a promotion.
To all those out there who read this if ya gonna mess up don’t do it around your own agency.
Take care and may God Bless those who are on the JOB.
Neil,
What happened to you is horrible, I am so sorry I have friends from other countries who are cops and hearing your story I almost don’t want them to visit. I would die a thousand deaths if a friend of mine from Pakiistan was treated like that because of where he comes from.
I have invited almost all of my friends from various countries to visit me but kniow after hearing this I might reconsider.
I call it small town bullyism, I don’t mean that all small town agencies are like that because they are NOT, but thats my take on it.
I do hiope your family has healed from those torent actions, and that you enjoy retirement for as long as you can without further incident.
A fellow disabled friend from baltimore
Reminder to All.
What keeps us together should and MUST always be the oath and law of this country we uphold!! Anything other than that allows for deviation from the law.
I said it before and I will say it again, GANGS have the same mentality of keeping their organizations together and sticking together based on a unified thinking or affiliation! The thin blue line is always linked to cover ups and corruptions.
Wow, I’ll make it easy for you. I am a cop. I use my discretion on every single encounter that I have with another person. If you take that discretion away, I will have to arrest or write each person that I encounter a citation for driving 1 mile over, failing to signal, having an equipment violation or having 1 beer more than they should have. I hope that is not what you want. Remember, it is my discretion (not yours), let me use it.
It is the fact that he expects preferential treatment that he is a cop. Thank god there is no PBA out there or he did not know the mayor because I am sure the captain would have thrown that out there also.
KPTSX. I did not say take away discretion. What I said is use discretion not tainted by who someone knows or whose PBA card one holds or who one is related to. Simply put use your discretion not having any use of unethical motivation. Do some research. The PBA in Bergen County NJ is known in the legal and court system as “the thin blue mafia.” Enough said.
No, I’m not a police officer, but I do hold the profession in high regard. I appreciate the danger and duty you perform to protect us (I have LEO friends). A big however here, TheObserver… thank you. You give me some hope that the Rule of Law is at least paid attention to by some (most?) cops. I understand your jobs are tough. Please don’t make them tougher by setting yourselves above the law over a few minor tickets. Is our respect something so easily dismissed? Are you really that petty? I hope not.
Neil,
I wanted to start by thanking all of you guys for sharing your views about my case.
I also wanted to update you guys on my case. The DEA now is seeking to prosecute me for possessing a short barrel rifle, my back up duty weapon AR-15, that I used on the job before I became disable during my last police shooting I was involved with.
This charge is a felony and if found guilty I will face time in prison and most importantly I will LOSE my penssion.
This case now is about my family. This is going to destroy everything I have worked for which is to provide a stable future for my wife and three kids.
I already lost my school money, my doctorate program, for attorney’s fees which is about $50,000.00 USC.
The government is not giving me any type of deal and they do want me to serve time in perison and lose my penssion. They are going to destroy my future as a disabled police officer and also destroy and break my family.
Please if anyone has any advise or idea that may help me don’t hesitate to share it with me.
I am trying my best to reach out to fellow police officers and mainly disabled police officers to see if there is a way out for me.
Thanks again, and GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Neil.
I wanted to update you guys on the status of my legal battle for possession of a short barrel rifle that was my back up weapon on patrol.
The Magistrate judge following the second motion to suppress evidence openly admitted that he was wrong and apologized for not considering past cases used during the motions.
The prosecution team was stunned and had nothing to say. The judge then told the prosecutors to go back and reconsider their position about the case. My attorney immediately filed a motion to drop al l charges. The judge also stated that he doubt that there was an actual crime committed, the gun was seized illegally and that the officer who stopped my wife had made false statements and lied to the feds to stop my wife ever filing a citizen’s complaint against him.
This was a major blow to the prosecuting team. Few days later, the prosecutors still remained as stubborn and decided to go against the judge’s orders by seeking another grand jury indictment against me. Their goal now is to counter my attorney’s motion and rewrite the charges to change the judge’s position.
It is no doubt that the prosecutor has too much pride to admit that she jumped the gun and not once she tried to investigate the reliability of the statements made by the local officer. The feds should’ve carefully investigated the matter and I believe that they could still fix all of this by going after the officer who lied too made.
We have a hearing in couple of weeks and I promise to update you guys with the outcome. Thank you all and God Bless